Rapporti problematici tra compagnie USA e Air Italy

presentazione e sviluppo attività di AIR ITALY (by Meridiana e Qatar Airways)
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In questa sezione si dovranno trattare esclusivamente tutti gli argomenti inerenti la nuova AIRITALY dopo la presentazione del piano industriale avvenuta il 19 Febbraio 2018
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malpensante
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » gio 06 giu 2019, 20:51:55

Non verranno presi aerei usati, ma nuovi. L’usato può essere solo temporaneo.
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milmxp
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda milmxp » gio 06 giu 2019, 20:58:38

Penso che al di là di quello che succede si tenda a parlare male di Air Italy perché rischia (dico rischia perché nulla è scontato in questa operazione) di scardinare l'equilibrio che si è realizzato nei 10 anni dal dehub:
- Malpensa castrata o quasi, ridotta ad aeroporto ptp/low cost; nessuno si ricorda di post del tipo 'Malpensa farà la fine del Mirabel'? Ora MXP sta risorgendo dalle sue ceneri (questo a prescindere da Air Italy);
- Aeroporti del Nord Italia che temono di essere messi in ombra per colpa di MXP (vedasi piagnistei nelle zone di Torino);
- Fiumicino hubbe naturale per eccellenza con Alitalia hubbe carrier.
Al momento siamo molto lontani dall'essere anche un piccolo hub affermato, ma se andasse in porto... ne vedremo delle belle.
Ad esempio proprio oggi su altri lidi si è menzionato di un volo da Linate con 23 passeggeri, perché nessuna pagina fa scandalo, mentre con Air Italy per voli da 30 pax lo si fa?
Questa winter in IG avevano frequenze ridotte all'osso, easyJet in alcuni giorni della settimana faceva decollare 5 aerei, ripeto 5, la mattina con una base di una ventina di aerei. Perché non si è detto nulla?
Nessuno vuole mettere la testa sotto la sabbia, perché di cose che non vanno ce ne sono, ma a mio avviso bisogna essere intellettualmente disonesti per pretendere che i piani di sviluppo si mantengano tali dopo tutto il finimondo che è successo per cause esterne.
Specie quando Air Italy non sta chiedendo soldi a nessuno che non sia i suoi azionisti, a differenza di qualche altra compagnia che tutti amano.
My two cents.

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mattaus313
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda mattaus313 » gio 06 giu 2019, 22:31:06

Un obbiettivo sensato e razionale sarebbe avere una flotta da iniziare a rinnovare gradualmente qualche anno dopo aver raggiunto il break even. Direi che tenere/prendere un usato che possa reggere circa 10 anni dall'entrata in flotta Air Italy sia accettabile. E' vero che molte macchine sono già piuttosto datate, ma per fare un confronto Lufthansa qualche giorno fa ha ritirato un A320 entrato in servizio nel 1989. Se le condizioni lo permettono e il rischio di sostenere maggiori costi di manutenzione vince sui canoni di leasing sensibilmente minori va bene. Dal punto di vista del consumatore credo che i casi dove il tipo di macchina (e più nello specifico 787 vs 330 e 737 vs 320) incide sulla scelta ancor più di orario e prezzo, siano completamente trascurabili.
"Because you needed a lot of capital in an airline, you needed to be where the financial markets were, and obviously that's New York"

grandemilano
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda grandemilano » gio 06 giu 2019, 23:08:02

milmxp ha scritto:Penso che al di là di quello che succede si tenda a parlare male di Air Italy perché rischia (dico rischia perché nulla è scontato in questa operazione) di scardinare l'equilibrio che si è realizzato nei 10 anni dal dehub:
- Malpensa castrata o quasi, ridotta ad aeroporto ptp/low cost; nessuno si ricorda di post del tipo 'Malpensa farà la fine del Mirabel'? Ora MXP sta risorgendo dalle sue ceneri (questo a prescindere da Air Italy);
- Aeroporti del Nord Italia che temono di essere messi in ombra per colpa di MXP (vedasi piagnistei nelle zone di Torino);
- Fiumicino hubbe naturale per eccellenza con Alitalia hubbe carrier.
Al momento siamo molto lontani dall'essere anche un piccolo hub affermato, ma se andasse in porto... ne vedremo delle belle.
Ad esempio proprio oggi su altri lidi si è menzionato di un volo da Linate con 23 passeggeri, perché nessuna pagina fa scandalo, mentre con Air Italy per voli da 30 pax lo si fa?
Questa winter in IG avevano frequenze ridotte all'osso, easyJet in alcuni giorni della settimana faceva decollare 5 aerei, ripeto 5, la mattina con una base di una ventina di aerei. Perché non si è detto nulla?
Nessuno vuole mettere la testa sotto la sabbia, perché di cose che non vanno ce ne sono, ma a mio avviso bisogna essere intellettualmente disonesti per pretendere che i piani di sviluppo si mantengano tali dopo tutto il finimondo che è successo per cause esterne.
Specie quando Air Italy non sta chiedendo soldi a nessuno che non sia i suoi azionisti, a differenza di qualche altra compagnia che tutti amano.
My two cents.


Quoto tutto.
In questi 10 anni se ne sono dette tante su Malpensa. E quando non si attaccava Malpensa, si trovava il modo di screditarla.
Ryaner non verrà mai perché Orio può essere ampliato, Malpensa non troverà mai più un hub carrier perché c'è Linate (che continua a calare nei passeggerei), Malpensa non tornerà mai ai livelli del 2007 con 25 milioni di passeggeri… e tanto altro
Adesso, l'ultima moda, vede AirItaly perdere vagonate di soldi, cambiare i programmi originali perché le cose vanno male… e tanto altro che non sto qui ad elencare altrimenti scriverei un romanzo.
In questi 10 anni, il tempo ha dimostrato che l'hanno gufata davvero bene. Quindi che continuino così :ciao: :ciao:

romaneeconti
Messaggi: 1947
Iscritto il: sab 12 set 2015, 00:14:48

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda romaneeconti » ven 07 giu 2019, 00:31:02

Me cojoni 'sti rosiconi….quante gufate si leggono :green:

C-ALEX
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda C-ALEX » mer 12 giu 2019, 09:25:04

Incredibile è iniziata la guerra commerciale pesante !!!!

https://www.romatoday.it/economia/voli- ... -euro.html
http://www.monzatoday.it/attualita/volo ... retto.html
https://www.aviomedia.net/2019/06/11/offerta-ba-usa/

non ancora caricate su sito British

offerta British Airways voli FCO-JFK e MXP-JFK, MXP-MIA in code sharing con American Airlines;
non caricata su sito British e non è specificata durata offerta

che sia la resa incondizionata delle big3 USA, visto che Delta non molla l'osso Alitalia

effetto altro traffico tolto dall'aspirapolvere Linate (mia opinione)

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molival
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda molival » mer 12 giu 2019, 09:59:09

ma non erano già in CS... io di solito per andare a MIA con AA prenotavo dal sito BA per utilizzare le avios..
visto e considerato che i NIMBY sono contro tutto..... perche non se ne vanno in giro a dorso di mulo e non col SUV

LO STIVALE E' DI MODA nel cxxo di AZ

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malpensante
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » mer 12 giu 2019, 11:04:59

Tutti i voli sul Nordatlantico della JV di Oneworld sono in c/s.
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milmxp
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda milmxp » mer 12 giu 2019, 11:16:40

A me sembra di ricordare che anche negli anni passati BA avesse fatto offerte simili.

Pagina 394
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda Pagina 394 » mer 12 giu 2019, 11:52:10

Immagine

Sicuramente date meno attraenti, ma sinceramente mi ha fatto un certo effetto vedere voli Milano-NY A/R a meno di 200€ :eek:
(Per chi è interessato, ci sono questi prezzi anche per novembre, dicembre e inizio anno :yeah: )
Ultima modifica di Pagina 394 il mer 12 giu 2019, 17:52:56, modificato 1 volta in totale.

Mauz®
Messaggi: 1974
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda Mauz® » mer 12 giu 2019, 12:58:43

Il c/s l'hanno sempre avuto.
Io ho volato LIN-LHR-EWR con BA per 370€ a/R tutto incluso.

In ogni caso è una mossa curiosa, considerata la presenza di QR in IAG.

Inviato dal mio JSN-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
Stiamo monitorando attentamente la situazione. (Claudia)

rogerwilco
Messaggi: 326
Iscritto il: mer 19 set 2018, 15:36:42

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda rogerwilco » mer 12 giu 2019, 15:22:55

Sará, ma 100 euro in più li spendo molto volentieri pur di evitarmi LHR.... :ciao:

Mauz®
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda Mauz® » gio 13 giu 2019, 13:51:19

Per andare a new York ne spendi ben più di 100 in più in genere.

Nel mio caso era 370€ con scalo Vs 550€ diretto. E costi maggiori per raggiungere MXP rispetto a LIN.


BA a volte sbraca veramente tanto i prezzi. Ormai la tengo sempre d'occhio. Specie da quando LIN-LCY in business mi costava circa 70€ in meno di un BGY-STN con FR.
Sola andata ovviamente.

Alla fine spesi ben 1€ in più e volai su LHR per comodità rispetto alla posizione del mio hotel.
In business, con franchigia bagagli altissima, lounge, fast track, accesso prioritario ecc...

Al ritorno però FR partiva da 22€, BA da 500€. Quindi ho fatto andata in business con BA e ritorno in carro bestiame con FR!


Inviato dal mio JSN-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
Stiamo monitorando attentamente la situazione. (Claudia)

spanna
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda spanna » ven 21 giu 2019, 09:11:23

https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/06/18/air-italy-signs-codeshare-agreement-with-alaska-airlines/
interessante la conclusione dell'articolo:
...
The Italian carrier has recently been object of scrutiny by some of the major carriers in the U.S. due to its ownership structure. Qatar Airways owns a 49 percent stake in Air Italy and the CEOs of American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines bought an advertisement in the New York Times last April to encourage President Trump to investigate Air Italy’s commercial strategy. It was being suggested that Qatar Airways is using its minority-owned subsidiary as a trojan horse to penetrate the lucrative Europe-U.S. transatlantic market.

This initiative by the three biggest carriers in the U.S. was closely followed by a rebuttal letter to U.S. Secretaries of State and Department of Transportation Mike Pompeo and Elaine Chao, signed by the CEOs of JetBlue and FedEx to “set the record straight” in front of the “misinformation campaign” by their colleagues.

This new agreement signed by Alaska Airlines with Air Italy can be interpreted as a decision by the Seattle-based carrier to side with JetBlue and FedEx in this dispute and therefore consider Air Italy as a fair competitor in the marketplace and not as a “massively subsidized airlines that ignores economic realities” as other airlines claim it to be.
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malpensante
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Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » mer 26 giu 2019, 07:23:11

La querelle parallela fra USA e Emirati pare muoversi verso la riconferma totale delle V libertà.
ATWOnline, il resto è per gli abbonati.

Joint US-UAE government joint statement hailed as Open Skies victory
Jun 25, 2019 Karen Walker | ATW Plus

A new US-United Arab Emirates (UAE) joint government statement is being seen as a full endorsement of the two countries’ Open Skies agreement rights, including Fifth Freedom services. The joint statement confirms their “shared and ongoing commitment of the United States and the United Arab Emirates to fully maintain all aspects of their Open Skies relationship.” It was welcomed by Emirates Airline president Tim Clark, who commended the Trump administration for ...
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KittyHawk
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda KittyHawk » mer 26 giu 2019, 07:58:19

Leggendo il testo della dichiarazione congiunta (https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-the-sixth-u-s-uae-economic-policy-dialogue/), specie alla luce dell'aumentato livello di scontro con l'Iran e tenendo presente la bilancia dei pagamenti statunitense, si capisce bene il perché delle decisioni prese. Le evidenziazioni del testo sono mie.
The two sides reaffirmed their ongoing commitment to further deepening ties between the two countries and the importance of the U.S.-UAE economic relationship in promoting regional prosperity and stability.
...
The two sides acknowledged that bilateral trade in goods reached close to $25 billion in 2018, with almost 75 percent of this sum (circa 19 miliardi di dollari! NdR) constituting U.S. exports to the UAE, the United States fourth largest trade surplus globally. It was also recognized that the United States is one of the UAEs most important global economic partners and that for over a decade the UAE has been the United States largest Middle East and North African trading partner.
...
Delegations from the two countries also met to discuss civil aviation matters, during which both governments reaffirmed their strong support for the United States United Arab Emirates Air Transport Agreement (ATA) of March 11, 2002, and the understandings in the May 11, 2018, Record of Discussion between the governments of the United States and the United Arab Emirates. That Record of Discussion reinforced the principle of a fair and equal opportunity to compete in providing international air transportation governed by the ATA. They underscored the shared and ongoing commitment of the United States and the United Arab Emirates to fully maintain all aspects of their Open Skies relationship established by the ATA.

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malpensante
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » mer 26 giu 2019, 08:09:42

Fatti i conti e tutto sommato, agli USA conviene zittire le 3 grandi piangenti.
Forse con il Qatar la storia non è molto diversa, fatta salva la diversa posizione nella questione Iran.
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malpensante
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Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » mer 26 giu 2019, 08:51:00

US Big 3 glosses over UAE Open Skies outcome
Jun 25, 2019 by Karen Walker in ATW Editor's Blog


Reading the US Partnership for Open & Fair Skies’ press release on the US-UAE joint government policy statement on their Open Skies agreement, the expression "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind. Except it’s more about gloss than lipstick.

The whole saga began some five years ago when American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines were riled about Emirates starting its Dubai-Milan-New York Fifth Freedom service, as permitted within the US-UAE Open Skies agreement. The US carriers joined forces with their labor groups, hired a Washington lobbying group and began a large public campaign to curtail the growth of the three large Gulf carriers—Emirates, Etihad and Qatar Airways—and Emirates in particular. The message was that these carriers were heavily subsidized by their governments and were therefore contravening the UAE and Qatar Open Skies pacts.

It’s been a long, weary, expensive road since then, mostly benefiting lawyers and lobbyists. But it seemingly came to a conclusion in 2018 when the Trump administration and the UAE and Qatar governments each released Records of Discussion documents that essentially upheld the Open Skies pacts, while making clear that heavy government subsidies were not allowed, and that the Gulf carriers should make their annual financial records transparent.

But those Records of Discussion quickly turned contentious when White House trade director Peter Navarro started talking about “side letters” in which the UAE and Qatar had also agreed their airlines would not add any more Fifth Freedom flights via Europe to the US. Qatar Airways, which did not operate any such flights, seemed okay to go along with this. The UAE was not happy. Emirates, by this time, was also operating Dubai-Athens-New York as well as the Milan flights and did not want any implication that it was not entitled to add similar routes. And Navarro had implied that the terms of the UAE Open Skies agreement had been changed, when they had not.

Among US carriers, meanwhile, JetBlue Airways—which will operate its planned new transatlantic flights under US-UK and US-European Union rights—and cargo carriers like Atlas Air and FedEx, which need the Fifth Freedom rights, saw a gnawing away of Open Skies bedrock principles. They opposed what the “Big 3” US carriers were doing via the US Partnership for Open & Fair Skies’ campaign.

The interpretation and positive reception of this week’s US-UAE joint policy agreement has been unified and overwhelming, with travel consumer organizations joining the Atlas-FedEx-JetBlue coalition and Emirates in seeing it as a clear reaffirmation of the 2002 US-UAE Open Skies agreement, complete with full Fifth Freedom rights for all airlines.

The Open & Fair Skies campaign, meanwhile, glosses over this with a statement about its gratitude to President Trump for taking up the issue with the UAE leadership. But it also claims, contrary to the policy statement, that the 2018 side letter “halted the UAE’s plans to expand flights through Europe to the United States.”

I asked the organization to clarify that statement and was given this response, attributed to managing director Scott Reed, “Last year’s agreement with the UAE included a side letter in which the UAE agreed that its airlines would not launch further fifth freedom flights to the United States.” Which is a repeat of the press release that does not align with the government policy statement.

American, Delta and United have put so much money into this issue, it’s hard to see them giving up even now, which likely explains why the Open & Fair Skies press release sticks to the same talking points. They are also now focused on Qatar Airways and its 49% stake in Air Italy, which operates to the US under US-EU Open Skies, but which the US carriers insist is a Qatar Airways’ Fifth Freedom route. It’s not; if it were, then BA's flights to the US would also be because Qatar Airways also has a substantial stake in IAG, parent of BA, an American Airlines partner.

The biggest point of all, however, is not the scrap over Fifth Freedom interpretations. American, Delta and United went into this long campaign determined to clip the wings of the Gulf carriers by demonstrating that they had violated the fair-and-equal opportunity to compete principle of open skies. Had the US carriers demonstrated this beyond the circle of their own employees and labor groups, the two Open Skies agreements might have been torn up. Most tellingly, the US carriers have never acted on their beliefs by filing an International Air Transportation Fair Competitive Practices Act complaint. Meanwhile, their share of the transatlantic market within antitrust immunized alliances (American with British Airways, Delta United with Lufthansa and the pending expanded Delta-Air France-KLM-Virgin Atlantic joint venture) has grown to the point where they dominate the market and dictate its fares.

The Trump administration appears to get that.


https://atwonline.com/blog/us-big-3-glosses-over-uae-open-skies-outcome?NL=ATW-04&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_3&utm_rid=CPEN1000000434175&utm_campaign=20228&utm_medium=email&elq2=9a6cf323a8904c1b93cecb6aad9770b4
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KittyHawk
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Re:

Messaggio da leggereda KittyHawk » mer 26 giu 2019, 14:35:53

malpensante ha scritto:US Big 3 glosses over UAE Open Skies outcome
Jun 25, 2019 by Karen Walker in ATW Editor's Blog

...
The biggest point of all, however, is not the scrap over Fifth Freedom interpretations. American, Delta and United went into this long campaign determined to clip the wings of the Gulf carriers by demonstrating that they had violated the fair-and-equal opportunity to compete principle of open skies. Had the US carriers demonstrated this beyond the circle of their own employees and labor groups, the two Open Skies agreements might have been torn up. Most tellingly, the US carriers have never acted on their beliefs by filing an International Air Transportation Fair Competitive Practices Act complaint. Meanwhile, their share of the transatlantic market within antitrust immunized alliances (American with British Airways, Delta United with Lufthansa and the pending expanded Delta-Air France-KLM-Virgin Atlantic joint venture) has grown to the point where they dominate the market and dictate its fares.

La chiosa dell'articolo è particolarmente illuminante. Finora le US3 non hanno compiuto il passo formale per contestare le ME3, probabilmente perché non sono sicure di vincere. Meglio fare lobbying e sperare che qualche politico a libro paga faccia il lavoro sporco necessario. Un giudice potrebbe dare ragione agli arabi e a quel punto non ci sarebbe modo ri recuperare il danno subito.
Altrettanto interessante è la questione dell'antitrust immunized alliances. Se qualche compagnia fuori dalle JV dovesse lamentare un cartello tra le JV stesse presso le autorità competenti e invocare l'antitrust, c'è il rischio che le stesse vengano sciolte d'imperio e che ogni aerolinea, allora, possa fare quello che vuole. E le autorità, in questo caso, non sono solo quelle statunitensi.

spanna
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda spanna » gio 27 giu 2019, 09:12:14

https://skift.com/2019/06/26/tiny-air-italy-pushes-back-on-big-u-s-carriers-that-say-it-competes-unfairly/?utm_content=95062383&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-374822255
The three largest U.S. carriers say Air Italy competes unfairly. But it is highly unlikely the airline is breaking any U.S. or EU laws. If the U.S. airlines want to break Air Italy, they’ll have to do it the old-fashioned way — through ruthless competition.
— Brian Sumers

Air Italy, the European airline 49 percent owned by Qatar Airways, continues to push back against accusations by the three major U.S. carriers that it is “cheating” by adding new flights from its Milan hub to several U.S. cities.

“I would love to know how we are cheating,” Rossen Dimitrov, Air Italy’s chief operating officer, said in an interview. “We are a fully European airline, and we meet all the regulations and requirements of the EU. We have a majority shareholder which is European.”

This is the latest in the war of words between the trade group representing American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines, and the largest Gulf carriers, Qatar, Emirates, and Etihad Airways. The group, the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies, long has complained about Gulf carriers, arguing they are unfairly subsidized by their governments, leaving the U.S. airlines unable to compete effectively.
Historically, it has two issues. First, it objected to flights the carriers launched from their home hubs to U.S. cities, saying the airlines dumped more capacity than the market could reasonably support. Second, it opposed Gulf carrier flights from Europe to the United States, such as Emirates’ Milan-New York service, which the airlines are permitted to operate under the Open Skies agreements their governments signed with the United States.

Those concerns are less of a problem now than a couple of years ago. The Gulf carriers have been retrenching, and they’re no longer adding U.S routes, whether from their home hubs or from Europe.

More recently, the trade group has found a new enemy — Air Italy. It’s an airline that didn’t exist until last year, when Qatar Airways bought nearly half of a short-haul Italian airline called Meridiana, and renamed it.

The airline has changed its strategy and has been growing quickly since. This summer it is flying from Milan to Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, and New York, mostly with airplanes leased from Qatar.

The three major U.S. carriers have questioned Qatar’s motivations, asking the U.S. State Department to look into whether Qatar’s investment is appropriate.

“With respect to Meridana Airlines, it is clear that that airline could not be driving the growth and funding the losses it is clearly having if there wasn’t a strong government entity behind the scenes funding that,” Delta CEO Ed Bastian told reporters earlier this month in Seoul. “The questions are appropriate.”

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said he takes the Air Italy threat seriously, but that doesn’t mean the government will take action.
No Legal Standing

On a legal basis, the larger U.S. carriers likely don’t have much of an argument.

Air Italy is a European-registered airline, and the majority of it is owned by a European shareholders. Just as Delta can own 49 percent of Virgin Atlantic and 10 percent of Air France-KLM, Qatar can own 49 percent of Air Italy.

“What are we doing different than Delta is doing with Virgin and everyone else?” Dimitrov said .”If we call an investment cheating, then we need to redefine the definition of investment.”

Other U.S. interests agree. Earlier this year, the CEOs of FedEx, JetBlue, and Atlas Air wrote to Pompeo, asking him not to take action against Air Italy or Qatar. They noted the Italian Civil Aviation Authority and the European Commission already ruled Air Italy is a European airline, and warned other countries could retaliate if the United States pulls Air Italy’s traffic rights.

“Should the U.S. breach the U.S.-Qatar agreement by restricting Qatar Airways’ rights into the U.S., or the U.S.-EU agreement by restricting Air Italy flights, we can expect to see a rapid unraveling of hard-fought aviation rights around the world when other governments take similar action to shield their state-owned airlines from competition,” they said. “Undoubtedly, closing access to global markets will be a punishment that brings higher prices and fewer choices for American travelers, consumers, and shippers.”

Alaska Airlines did not sign the letter, but it has also tacitly endorsed Air Italy. Earlier this month, it agreed to an interline relationship with Air Italy that will allow customers from both airlines to connect to the other’s flights. The relationship could boost Air Italy’s revenues in San Francisco and Los Angeles, as it will now have access to new customers.

In the future, Dimitrov said, it is possible the two carriers might form a closer codeshare relationship.
Not a Major Threat

The major U.S. airlines may never persuade regulators to shut down Air Italy, but they can pressure it in other ways.

Most obvious is price. Savvy travelers may have noticed an unusual number of fare sales to Milan recently, such as the $582 price offered by United Airlines from Los Angeles for fall travel. A global airline like United can afford to sell prices so cheaply to put pressure on a competitor.

There are other levers, too. To make a route work, airlines generally need connecting passengers, so the Miami flight could pull passengers not just from South Florida, but from the entire Southeast. But with the exception of Alaska, which does not fly to Miami, Air Italy does not have much feed in the United States

Dimitrov said Air Italy has reached out to the three major carriers about an interline relationship. It is not unprecedented for an airline to have such a relationship with a fierce competitor. But in this case, not surprisingly, none has agreed.

“I would love to have a long term relationship with any of them, or all of them,” he said.

There is also the matter of reliability and meeting customer expectations. In an odd move, Air Italy announced a new Chicago route late last year, and began selling tickets for it, only to cancel it a couple of months later. Instead of starting it in spring 2019, the airline said, it will begin in 2020. Dimitrov blamed it on an “aircraft delivery issue.”
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malpensante
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Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » ven 28 giu 2019, 00:25:29

EC transport chief warns US not to curtail Air Italy flights
Jun 27, 2019 Karen Walker | ATW Plus



The European Commission (EC) has given the US a stern warning not to take any action against Milan-based Air Italy that would prevent it flying to the US.

ATW has obtained a copy of the letter, which was sent from EC Mobility and Transport director general Henrik Hololei to US State Department under secretary, economic growth, energy and environment Manisha Singh.

In it, Hololei uses unusually direct language to make clear that the EC “will take all steps necessary to defend the rights of the European Union (EU), its Member States and its air carriers” under the EU-US Open Skies agreement, which permits EU country-based airlines like Air Italy to fly to any US destination and vice versa.

The EC warning comes as American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines have joined forces in a campaign directed at challenging Air Italy’s flights to the US because Qatar Airways has a 49% stake in the Italian carrier. The three US majors have taken out full-page advertisements in US newspapers and lobbied Congress, claiming that Air Italy’s services are really Qatar Airways fifth freedom flights.

While the US also has an Open Skies agreement with Qatar that permits fifth freedom flights, the two countries agreed to a voluntary side letter in January, 2018 in which Qatar said Qatar Airways had no plans to launch fifth freedom services to the US.

EC rules permit the 49% stake that Qatar Airways has in Air Italy; Qatar Airway also has a 20% stake in International Airlines Group (IAG), which owns British Airways (BA), but the US airline campaign is not challenging BA’s right to serve the US or calling BA’s flights Qatar Airways fifth freedoms. BA is an American Airlines’ joint venture partner.

Hololei, whose letter was cc’d to US Department of Transportation assistant secretary, aviation and international, Joel Szabat, tell Singh: “I have come to understand that, following persistent, but unfounded demands from certain parts of the US airline industry, the US administration is potentially considering taking measures against the services of Air Italy to the United States. In this context, I would like to bring to your attention our serious concerns.

“Air Italy is an established EU carrier and its services to the US are covered by and fully consistent with the EU-US Air Transport Agreement (ATA) using 3rd and 4th freedom traffic rights between the EU and the US. Therefore, any measure to curtail or end the rights of Air Italy to serve the US would constitute a clear and serious violation of the ATA.

“Such action would be unprecedented and would put into question the most fundamental principles under which our aviation relations have so successfully developed over more than 10 years. I am sure that you would agree with me that the ATA has served us all well and we are always ready to work together with you and your team on this, including on clarifying incorrect public allegations and representations made by certain market participants.

“The European Commission will take all steps necessary to defend the rights of the EU, its Member States and its air carriers under the ATA.”

A petition was circulated on Capitol Hill calling on the Trump administration to take action against Qatar Airways over Air Italy and US Representative Debbie Lesko (Democrat-Arizona) sent a letter to the heads of the State, Commerce and Transportation, saying that Qatar Airways’ financial support for Air Italy’s expansion into the US violated the US-Qatar Open Skies side letter.

However, there has been a backlash against the US majors’ campaign, with other US airlines, airports and travel consumer organizations warning of “misleading and inaccurate” claims.

“The [Lesko letter] is premised on misleading claims promoted by parties that stand to benefit financially and its fundamental basis is incompatible with the facts regarding Open Skies and contrary to the broader economic interests of the US aviation, manufacturing and tourism industries, and the millions of American customers we serve,” an aviation coalition wrote in early June.

This week, a new US-United Arab Emirates (UAE) joint government statement was released in which the two countries said they “shared an ongoing commitment of the United States and the United Arab Emirates to fully maintain all aspects of their Open Skies relationship.”

The significance of the statement lies in its confirmation that all rights of the original 2002 US-UAE Open Skies agreement are confirmed. American, Delta United Airlines and their affiliated labor groups had sought to freeze UAE fifth freedom rights in the agreement, which would have prevented Dubai-based Emirates from expanding its transatlantic flights. Emirates operates Dubai-Milan-New York and Dubai-Athens-New York flights. The other UAE major airline, Etihad Airways, does not operate any fifth freedoms, nor does Qatar Airways from Doha to the US, but the rights are open to all US, UAE and Qatar carriers and are a standard of Open Skies pacts.


https://atwonline.com/open-skies/ec-transport-chief-warns-us-not-curtail-air-italy-flights?NL=ATW-04&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000000434175&utm_campaign=20263&utm_medium=email&elq2=63ef4235baca4af0b5463c43ac3f7522
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KittyHawk
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Iscritto il: mer 11 giu 2008, 23:29:09
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda KittyHawk » ven 28 giu 2019, 00:41:57

Son curioso di sapere se l'iniziativa di Hololei è spontanea o è stata suggerita. In entrambi i casi si iniziano a mettere dei paletti e nel caso di una guerra commerciale USA-UE non sarei tanto sicuro che le US3 partano da una posizione di vantaggio.

Mauz®
Messaggi: 1974
Iscritto il: gio 10 lug 2008, 18:41:39
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda Mauz® » sab 29 giu 2019, 03:31:06

Quanto godo a vedere le porte in faccia che si stanno prendendo le US3!

Inviato dal mio JSN-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
Stiamo monitorando attentamente la situazione. (Claudia)

spanna
Messaggi: 3060
Iscritto il: lun 07 set 2009, 17:18:41

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda spanna » sab 29 giu 2019, 11:18:31

la storia approda anche sul financial times
A small Italian airline has become the latest source of tension in the increasingly frayed relationship between the EU and the Trump administration, after officials in Brussels warned Washington not to stop Air Italy flying in and out of the US.

Large US airlines have been lobbying the US government to prevent the Italian carrier flying what they see as unfairly-subsidised routes, which they say are being underwritten by Air Italy’s Qatari owners and undercut their own services.

The European Commission has written to the US state department warning that any action against Air Italy would constitute a violation of the US-EU Air Transport Agreement.

In the letter, seen by the Financial Times, Henrik Hololei, the director-general for transport at the Commission, warned Manisha Singh, assistant secretary at the state department, that Europe would take “all necessary steps” to defend its rights.

Mr Hololei said: “Any measure to curtail or end the rights of Air Italy to serve the US would constitute a clear and serious violation of the ATA. Such action would be unprecedented and would put into question the most fundamental principles under which our aviation relations have so successfully developed over more than 10 years.”

Mr Hololei’s strongly-worded warning comes as the Trump administration weighs whether to take action against either Air Italy or Qatar Airways, which owns 49 per cent of the Italian airline’s shares.

The three largest US airlines — American Airlines, United Airlines and Delta — argue the Italian company would not have been able to expand into the US without the help of its Qatari shareholder, which they say is itself subsidised by the Qatari government.

Scott Reed, managing partner for the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies, which represents the three airlines, said on Friday: “Qatar Airways’ actions regarding Air Italy are designed to serve as a loophole to undermine last year’s agreement with the Trump administration.”

Air Italy is now running services from Milan to New York, Miami, San Francisco and Los Angeles, which the US companies argue violates an agreement signed last year by the US and Qatar to adhere to “market consistent conditions as far as possible”.


They have garnered support in their efforts from Peter Navarro, an adviser to US President Donald Trump and a noted trade hawk, as well as senior members of Congress.

But people close to the situation say Mr Navarro is being resisted by some in the state department, who worry that taking action against Qatar Airways risks alienating a potential ally in the Gulf at a time when tensions are escalating with Iran.

A state department spokesman said it was “committed to levelling the playing field and ensuring American companies have the opportunity to succeed globally. We also seek to maintain the Open Skies framework of US international aviation policy. Our goal is to provide beneficial results for as many US stakeholders as possible, and we believe diplomacy is delivering results.”

The US airlines are continuing to lobby heavily, though they say they want the administration to take action against Qatar Airways and not necessarily Air Italy itself.

“Qatar is responsible for these massive government subsidies and Qatar needs to be held accountable,” said Mr Reed.

Qatar Airways denies the claims against it. Earlier this year, Akbar Al Baker, the company’s chief executive, told the Financial Times the claims were “entirely off base” and that US-Qatari agreements “contain no mention of any kind, let alone prohibition, of cross-border airline investments”.


https://www.ft.com/content/82a82f8c-99c1-11e9-9573-ee5cbb98ed36?shareType=nongift
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mattaus313
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Iscritto il: sab 29 set 2018, 15:51:39

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda mattaus313 » sab 29 giu 2019, 11:31:51

KittyHawk ha scritto:Son curioso di sapere se l'iniziativa di Hololei è spontanea o è stata suggerita. In entrambi i casi si iniziano a mettere dei paletti e nel caso di una guerra commerciale USA-UE non sarei tanto sicuro che le US3 partano da una posizione di vantaggio.


Avrebbero sicuramente la peggio, credo che il traffico atlantico sia prevalentemente originato lato UE, inoltre di solito le aziende americane abbaiano quando sono "in difficoltà" (non assoluta, ma anche semplicemente relativa rispetto alla concorrenza).

Ero certo che prima o poi tutto ciò avrebbe fatto eco anche a Bruxelles, speriamo si prendano una bella dose di insulti anche perché è patetico che 3 compagnie grandi n volte Air Italy (ma anche rispetto a Qatar) abbiano bisogno di metterla sul "legale", quando, almeno di Air Italy, non avrebbero dovuto nemmeno accorgersi della sua esistenza neanche con 50 aerei in flotta.

Mauz® ha scritto:Quanto godo a vedere le porte in faccia che si stanno prendendo le US3!



Mi associo :lol:
"Because you needed a lot of capital in an airline, you needed to be where the financial markets were, and obviously that's New York"


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