Rapporti problematici tra compagnie USA e Air Italy

presentazione e sviluppo attività di AIR ITALY (by Meridiana e Qatar Airways)
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In questa sezione si dovranno trattare esclusivamente tutti gli argomenti inerenti la nuova AIRITALY dopo la presentazione del piano industriale avvenuta il 19 Febbraio 2018
spanna
Messaggi: 3057
Iscritto il: lun 07 set 2009, 17:18:41

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda spanna » sab 29 giu 2019, 11:56:13

nel frattempo le US3 continuano a lamentarsi
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/27/air-italy-violates-open-skies-pact-qatar-subsidies/
By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times - Thursday, June 27, 2019

A tiny 15-plane carrier in Italy is creating turbulence within the U.S. airline industry, pressuring President Trump to resolve the aerial conflict.

The Big Three U.S. passenger airlines — Delta, American and United — are calling on the Trump administration to take action over their claims that Qatar has violated the 2018 Open Skies agreement by using “massive government subsidies” to add routes via its proxy, Air Italy.

The agreement limits Qatar’s ability to fly between U.S. and European destinations but doesn’t stop Air Italy, which is 49% owned by Qatar Airways. The once-struggling Italian line now is making daily nonstop flights to New York with expanded service to Los Angeles, Miami and San Francisco in what rivals describe as a “grave threat” to the U.S. industry.

“Last year, President Trump took a stand for American workers by negotiating an agreement with Qatar designed to end its Open Skies violations. In the months since, we’ve seen Qatar has no intention of respecting this administration or playing by the rules,” said Scott Reed, managing partner of the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies, a coalition of the Big Three airlines and the pilots and flight attendants unions.

Meanwhile, Qatar Airways has accused the large U.S. carriers of trying to stifle competition with allegations that “defy all logic,” and not all U.S. airlines are on board with the Big Three.
In Qatar’s corner are JetBlue, three cargo carriers, airports and tourism interests that benefit from the increased traffic and economic activity, fueling a standoff that could land on the agenda of Mr. Trump’s July 9 meeting with the Qatari emir at the White House.

The skirmish is certain to be on the administration’s radar. The partnership launched a media campaign in April with television spots in the D.C. market and ads in New York newspapers urging Mr. Trump to “hold Qatar accountable” and appealing to his well-known distaste for bad trade deals.

Earlier this month, 10 members of Congress led by Rep. Debbie Lesko, Arizona Republican, sent a letter to the administration asking for “further examination and a response” into whether Qatar is complying with the agreement.

“Air Italy’s entry into this crowded market appears consistent with Qatar Airways pattern of adding subsidized capacity in markets where demand is already well-served,” said the letter. “Without funding from Qatar Airways, Air Italy would be unable to launch its new service, just as Qatar Airways would not be viable without direct support from the Qatari government.”

At an April hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo confirmed under bipartisan questioning that “the U.S. government sees what’s going on.”

“We think it was a good agreement, and we’re trying to ensure it’s enforced,” Mr. Pompeo said.

As far as Qatar Airways is concerned, the Big Three are trying to beat back competitors for the U.S.-European market with specious claims of cheating.

Qatar Airways argued that the agreement permits the investment in Air Italy, announced in 2016, before the Open Skies accord was finalized in January 2018. Qatar and the Big Three airlines have feuded over the agreement’s stance on subsidies.

“Qatar Airways has fully complied with the 2018 Aviation Understandings between the US and the State of Qatar,” Qatar Airways said in a statement to The Washington Times. “Efforts by the 3 largest US carriers to claim that its pre-existing minority investment in Air Italy violates the Understandings defy all logic.”

Air Italy has 15 aircraft, but only five are capable of long-haul service. The combined fleet of the largest U.S. carriers is 4,500 planes. The Big Three and their alliance partners control more than 90% of trans-Atlantic capacity.

“The rhetoric surrounding this minority investment bears no resemblance to reality, and the claim that operations by Air Italy to the US pose any threat to the US aviation industry should be rejected out of hand,” said Qatar Airways.

Tori Barnes, U.S. Travel Association executive vice president of public affairs and policy, argued that Open Skies has resulted in trade surpluses with Qatar and the United Arab Emirates stemming from purchases of U.S.-made planes and increased international travel.

“The Trump Administration has done everything right,” Ms. Barnes said in an email. “They’ve thoroughly investigated the U.S. three’s concerns and they’ve required the Gulf Carriers to be more financially transparent to ensure no wrongdoing.”

At the same time, she said, “the Administration has yet to find any evidence of a violation or economic harm caused to U.S. carriers. That’s why the Administration has also kept Open Skies intact and taken steps to protect all U.S. interests.”

Ms. Barnes argued that the Big Three have the option of filing a complaint with the Transportation Department, but opponents said such a process would only bring the parties to where they are now: before the administration.

U.S. Airlines for Open Skies, led by JetBlue and three cargo carriers, blasted the “disinformation campaign” against Open Skies agreements with Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.

In a letter last month to the administration, the organization warned that restrictions on Qatar Airways or Air Italy flights would bring higher prices and “invite retaliation against U.S. airlines,” putting at risk “hundreds of thousands of American jobs.”

Emirates and Etihad Airways are owned by the UAE government. JetBlue has a code-sharing relationship with Qatar Airways.

“Retaliation would also have a crippling impact on U.S. passenger carriers seeking new service to the EU and halt any ability to bring down ticket prices in the outrageously expensive trans-Atlantic market,” said the organization.

Air Italy has remained defiant. It announced plans last month to add at least two North American destinations in 2020. All but the New York flights are now seasonal, but the airline has considered going year-round with flights from Milan to either San Francisco or Los Angeles.

“We will be happy to work with American, Delta and United. I have all respect for them,” Air Italy Chief Operating Officer Rossen Dimitrov told FlightGlobal. “Instead of us fighting, we could work together.”

That may be a flight of fancy.

“Qatar’s Open Skies violations represent a major threat to the U.S. airline industry and the more than 1.2 million jobs it supports,” Mr. Reed said. “We hope President Trump keeps this in mind when he meets with the emir and makes good on his campaign pledge to protect American workers.”
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hkg
Messaggi: 663
Iscritto il: dom 22 ago 2010, 18:44:21

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda hkg » sab 29 giu 2019, 12:42:30

Lamentarsi per dei voli in parte stagionali!!
I grandini, considerato che hanno delle mega flotte in confronto ad Air Italy, si lamentano di ciò. Ho il sentore che c e sotto qualcosa di più grosso. Affari più importanti a livello governativo.
MXP,CTA,LIN,CGD,VIE,AHO,CAG,OLB,KBP,TLL,LED,SVO,JFK,MBA,BKK,HKT,DPS,BLQ,SIN,TUN,BGY,LXR, PMV,DXB,TPE,HKG,KBV,AMM,UTH,LPQ,CNX,BWN,LBU,KCH,MYY,MNL,CRK,DOH,VLC,CGN,BCN,BUD,PRGAUH,CGK,JOG,KUL,TXL,LIS,STR,KIX,NRT,IST,HAM,CPH,KIV,PEK,SVQ,MCT,CPT,MJT,AGP,JKH,OPO,LXS,SKG,MAD

canadian#affairs
Messaggi: 1187
Iscritto il: dom 30 nov 2008, 11:25:20

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda canadian#affairs » lun 08 lug 2019, 22:31:16

Domani ci sarà un incontro Trump Al-Thani a Washington

Jul 8, 2019, 01:17pm
Qatar Airways Subsidies Continue to Undermine Competition in Vital Transatlantic Routes

Commercial aviation in international markets has never come under the disciplines of the World Trade Organization (WTO). It is instead loosely governed under a system of bilateral and sometimes regional “Open Skies” agreements which embody rules establishing mutually beneficial rights for services between signatory countries. The U.S. has over 120 separate agreements which generally promote flexibility in setting schedules, fares and capacity between the parties. They require non-discriminatory treatment of carriers in the markets of each participant. Most agreements require that each party provide a fair and equal opportunity to compete on generally accepted commercial terms for both landing rights and associated support services such as financing and provision of airports and ground transport. The most important exception to the functioning of this system comes from the large and growing competition from subsidized carriers in the Gulf states of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.

While the history of commercial aviation in its early years was dominated by state-owned (and often subsidized) carriers, in the last three decades the industry has moved toward a private sector model. Open Skies agreements have proliferated since 1992 in response to this new model and accommodate the huge growth in traffic. The commitment to use generally accepted commercial terms is the only effective check on government subsidies in the absence of WTO rules.

The biggest outliers to this model, although not the only ones, are the three Middle East-based carriers: Emirates, Etihad and Qatar airlines. Since the mid-1980s Emirates has become the world’s largest carrier in terms of capacity, and along with the others is rapidly taking market share from traditional carriers in the U.S., Europe, Australia, and Hong Kong, to name a few of the hardest hit. The U.S. lost six percent of its total international market share after 2007. Its market share declined from 48 percent to seven percent in travel to and from the Middle East. Massive subsidies approaching $50 billion to the oil-rich Middle East carriers have fueled this growth.


In late 2017 and early 2018 the U.S. State Department signed memoranda of understanding (MOUs) with the United Arab Emirates and Qatar under Article 15 of their respective Open Skies agreements to “seek disciplines on subsidies, transparency and state-owned enterprises.” High level support by the U.S. government was signaled by the presence of both then-Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis and then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson at the signing ceremony for the Qatari MOU.

While the evidence is not yet clear regarding a major rollback of subsidies under the MOUs, the new transparency requirements have allowed documentation of a major breach on the part of Qatar. In late 2017 Qatar bought a 49 percent stake in bankrupt Italian domestic airline Meridiana. The majority stake was retained by the Aga Khan Charitable Foundation. Meridiana was soon rebranded as Air Italy and its aging fleet of 11 Boeing 767s began to be retired and replaced by its new Qatar Airlines investor with Boeing 737 MAX and Airbus A330s. This would allow expansion of the previously short-haul domestic dominated carrier to major international routes. There is no evidence of how Air Italy is to pay for this massive transfer worth billions of dollars from the Qatar order-book to modernize its fleet.

There is however evidence that at least $30 million of the initial Qatar Airways injection into the holding company for Air Italy has been forgiven by the Middle East airline company. Additionally, Qatar Airways received a $491 million cash injection from the government of Qatar in 2018 partially to offset its operating loss that year and to facilitate the continued aid to Air Italy. Finally, Qatar Airways guaranteed a $30 million loan to Air Italy from HSBC, which carried a 2.5 percent rate of interest. Another $28.8 million loan from the parent holding company to Air Italy carried the same coupon rate. Such favorable loan terms could never have been approved for a startup just emerging from bankruptcy without backing from a larger and more stable firm. The Aga Khan majority owner has provided no fresh cash or loans to assist the new entity, and all major operating leaders of Air Italy came from Qatar Airways, indicating fairly clearly that the latter is in firm control.

The heavy subsidization of this small but growing airline is of concern for two principal reasons: it is in breach of the 2018 MOU with the U.S. and it threatens in the long run the ability of U.S. carriers to compete in major parts of the normally lucrative transatlantic markets. U.S. carriers have already seen their share of this market fall from 42 percent in 2005 to 34 percent in recent years. After righting their performance in the last three years, the three major U.S. carriers are building new capacity in an effort to reclaim lost share in the transatlantic market.

The clear target of Air Italy is to expand as a competitor in transatlantic routes to Italy, and it appears to be doing so at highly subsidized rates. I noted earlier the acquisition of a new fleet of long-haul equipment by Air Italy. Starting in 2018 and expanding this year, this new entity is using the international hub of Milan to offer direct flights to New York, Miami, San Francisco and Los Angeles, and has announced service to Chicago starting next year. Even offering new direct flights from Europe to the U.S. violates an understanding the American side asserted as part of the 2018 MOU. According to U.S. officials the parties to the MOU are barred from initiating new flights from third countries such as Italy. Additionally, the prices offered in a three-week test period this spring for these routes appear designed to win market share at the risk of losing money, a practice called dumping under WTO rules. Average fares for the four cities served by Air Italy averaged 28 percent less than those of competitors (which include Emirates Airways in the New York-Milan route) and fully 60 percent in the normally more profitable business class submarket. I did searches on the Air Italy website on June 10 and July 2 and found the following prices for round trip economy fares:

San Francisco-Milan $618

Los Angeles-Milan 593

New York-Milan 545

Miami-Milan 661

Air Italy has announced its intention to eventually offer direct service to Rome. A one-stop (Milan) connection from Miami to Rome was priced at $383 for flights last spring and $440 for fall flights.

While financial reporting for the Italian carrier is not transparent enough (another violation of the MOU) to estimate the actual cost for these flights, it is difficult to imagine such prices allow for a market-based profit. Air Italy has announced plans to quadruple its flights by 2022 as it acquires new aircraft, escalating the pressures on U.S. and European airlines, which have lost one-third of their market share to Asia partially as a result of competition from the subsidized Mideast carriers.

There will be some who will not lament displacement of U.S. and European airlines from important international routes, especially price hungry consumers in search of even lower fares (and narrower seats). But tens of thousands of U.S. workers and suppliers will bear the brunt of subsidized competition from the deep pockets of the oil sheikdoms. Having a large domestic aircraft fleet is certainly important to U.S. transportation needs in times of conflict or emergency, especially given the demise of the U.S. commercial naval fleet and defense transport fleet. Trying to maintain a global trading system based on clear rules for transparency, fair play on a commercial basis, and reciprocity is also an important reason for pursuing Qatari violations of the spirit and letter of the 2018 MOU.

Qatari Emir Sheik Tamin bin Hamad al-Thani will visit President Trump and other senior officials in Washington on July 9. This offers a timely opportunity to raise the issues arising from poor implementation of Qatari commitments from the MOU. The circumvention of this understanding represented by the Air Italy expansion should be at the center of the discussions.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdues ... 26373b7b3c

KittyHawk
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda KittyHawk » lun 08 lug 2019, 23:41:56

But tens of thousands of U.S. workers and suppliers will bear the brunt of subsidized competition from the deep pockets of the oil sheikdoms. Having a large domestic aircraft fleet is certainly important to U.S. transportation needs in times of conflict or emergency, especially given the demise of the U.S. commercial naval fleet and defense transport fleet. Trying to maintain a global trading system based on clear rules for transparency, fair play on a commercial basis, and reciprocity is also an important reason for pursuing Qatari violations of the spirit and letter of the 2018 MOU.

Ricorderei agli americani l'uso disinvolto del Chapter 11, che di "U.S. workers and suppliers" se ne infischia allegramente e li bastona senza pietà, come ricorderei pure gli aiuti - almeno nel passato, ora non so - di cui diverse aerolinee statunitensi hanno goduto con la scusa di sostenere le "U.S. transportation needs in times of conflict or emergency". Oppure la legge che obbliga tutti i funzionari pubblici statunitensi a servirsi delle aerolinee della madre patria, costino quello che costino, tranne che in situazioni dove proprio non è possibile farlo. E non dimenticherei neppure il limite di legge del 25% per la quota proprietaria posseduta da non statunitensi nelle compagnie aeree USA, che dal canto loro non si fanno scrupoli ad arrivare al 49% della proprietà di compagnie europee.
Come spesso accade, si guarda la pagliuzza nell'occhio del vicino e non la trave nel proprio.

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belumosi
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Iscritto il: mer 24 giu 2009, 01:11:11

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda belumosi » gio 11 lug 2019, 10:25:14

Alcuni esponenti della commissione parlamentare dei trasporti USA (incluso il presidente), hanno proposto una serie di emendamenti all'attuale normativa per rendere per restringere il campo di azione delle compagnie straniere ritenute poco “fair”.
Per quanto sia attualmente priva di valore legale, è la prima iniziativa presa ad un livello istituzionale contro quella che viene percepita come concorrenza sleale. Vedremo se avrà un seguito.

House introduces Fair and Open Skies Act

10 JULY, 2019 SOURCE: FLIGHT DASHBOARD BY: TOM RISEN WASHINGTON DC

House aviation committee lawmakers have introduced a bill intended to prohibit the US from granting commercial aviation permits to foreign carriers that could potentially undermine labor and competition standards.

The "Fair and Open Skies Act" would require the US Department of Transportation to ensure new permits granted to foreign airlines meet the labor and competition standards set by the US-EU-Norway-Iceland Air Transport Agreement. The full text of the bill is available online.

The main sponsor of the bill, Peter DeFazio, chairman of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, says some foreign carriers seek to sidestep regulations by basing parts of their businesses in different countries – what he calls "flags of convenience" operations. Such competitors, he says, enable a "race to the bottom" in aviation that threaten the ability of US to compete internationally.

"This bipartisan bill protects American jobs from predatory and unfair competition, and it protects the American flying public from deception,” DeFazio says.

Union members stood with DeFazio and other lawmakers on the Capitol building lawn on 10 July to announce the bill. Those included Air Line Pilots Association president Joe DePete, who criticised flag of convenience operations that "threaten to erode the proactive safety culture that we demand and that we have fostered here in the US”.

“These venue-shopping efforts allow the airlines to undermine workers’ pay and benefits", DePete says.

The bill resembles legislation DeFazio introduced in 2016 in response to a permit granted to Norwegian Air International, which he says established itself in Ireland to avoid Norway’s labor protections. The airline also contracted with a Singapore-based firm to provide flight and cabin crews on cheap short-term contracts.

Not everyone in the US aviation community supports the bill. The US Airlines for Open Skies lobbying group says in a statement that the bill addresses "a problem that does not exist".

"This unnecessary bill only invites retaliation by our international Open Skies partners, with the flying public shouldering the greatest consequences", says the lobbying group, which includes Atlas Air Worldwide, FedEx, JetBlue Airways and the Cargo Airline Association.

This bill also escalates pressure on the Trump administration amid conflicting lobbying efforts from different sides of the aviation industry about whether Qatar Airways has violated international agreements through its 49% stake in Air Italy.

Executives of Atlas Air, JetBlue Airways and FedEx have warned US Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao that retaliation against Qatar and Air Italy could have a “crippling impact on US passenger carriers seeking new service to the EU and halt any ability to bring down ticket prices in the outrageously expensive transatlantic market”.

A rival camp of companies called the Partnership for Open and Fair Skies has said investments by Qatar in Air Italy create an unfair market for employees of US airlines by violating a commitment made in 2018 by the Doha-based carrier not to add new flights to the US market. That partnership includes American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ct-459587/

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malpensante
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » gio 11 lug 2019, 10:36:04

Si tratta dell'ennesimo tentativo di ostacolare Norwegian, peraltro avviata sul viale del tramonto.
Comunque nel Congresso USA non mancano marionette sempre pronte a gratificare le US3. Potenza delle donazioni elettorali.
And Malpensa is going to be our Hub

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belumosi
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Iscritto il: mer 24 giu 2009, 01:11:11

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda belumosi » gio 11 lug 2019, 10:59:51

Qui c’è il testo. Da notare la definizione di flag of convenience carrier.

https://transportation.house.gov/imo/me ... ct_xml.pdf

milmxp
Messaggi: 1423
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda milmxp » gio 11 lug 2019, 11:26:44

Credo che gli americani temano un'invasione in massa come è successo con Norwegian.
In virtù degli accordi vigenti tra EU e USA, Qatar Airways potrebbe aprire domattina 100 voli per gli USA.
Ma finché Air Italy rimarrà nel perimetro delle destinazioni sensate da servire (JFK, MIA, LAX, SFO, BOS e ORD) possiamo stare tranquilli. Tra l'altro il numero massimo di sedili giornalieri per direzione che potrebbero offrire sarebbe meno di 2000 tenendo anche conto di una possibile doppietta su JFK. In questo scenario stiamo parlando del nulla.
Non credo che QR uscirà molto dal seminato, e credo che nell'incontro con Trump abbia fornito garanzie in merito (anche di tipo economico) .
Ultima modifica di milmxp il gio 11 lug 2019, 12:50:01, modificato 1 volta in totale.

KittyHawk
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda KittyHawk » gio 11 lug 2019, 12:16:06

Se la definizione è ‘flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier that is established in a country other than the home country of its majority owner or owners in order to avoid regulations of the home country siamo a cavallo, perché credo ci siano poche nazioni che pongano più difficoltà dell'Italia nella gestione di un'impresa.

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miguel
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda miguel » gio 11 lug 2019, 12:57:23

KittyHawk ha scritto:Se la definizione è ‘flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier that is established in a country other than the home country of its majority owner or owners in order to avoid regulations of the home country siamo a cavallo, perché credo ci siano poche nazioni che pongano più difficoltà dell'Italia nella gestione di un'impresa.
Anzi sarebbe il caso di chiedersi il controllo di Virgin Atlantic chi lo ha ?

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malpensante
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » gio 11 lug 2019, 13:25:45

Si riferisce a Norwegian che usa AOC britannico.
And Malpensa is going to be our Hub

spanna
Messaggi: 3057
Iscritto il: lun 07 set 2009, 17:18:41

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda spanna » gio 11 lug 2019, 15:15:20

non si riferisce solo a norwegian, l'articolo cita espressamente anche air italy
This bill also escalates pressure on the Trump administration amid conflicting lobbying efforts from different sides of the aviation industry about whether Qatar Airways has violated international agreements through its 49% stake in Air Italy.
Countdown verso la dissoluzione della grande meretrice aerea: conteggio iniziato!
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belumosi
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda belumosi » ven 12 lug 2019, 01:42:47

KittyHawk ha scritto:Se la definizione è ‘flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier that is established in a country other than the home country of its majority owner or owners in order to avoid regulations of the home country siamo a cavallo, perché credo ci siano poche nazioni che pongano più difficoltà dell'Italia nella gestione di un'impresa.

flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier (QR), that is established in a country (Italia) other than the home country of its majority owner or owners (Qatar) in order to avoid regulations of the home country (che non permettono voli tra Europa e USA senza che siano prosecuzioni di voli provenienti dal Qatar).
Seppure non corretto dal punto di vista formale (QR è socio di minoranza di IG), secondo me questo è il concetto che si vorrebbe far passare con la nuova legge.

kco
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda kco » ven 12 lug 2019, 07:44:58

belumosi ha scritto:
KittyHawk ha scritto:Se la definizione è ‘flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier that is established in a country other than the home country of its majority owner or owners in order to avoid regulations of the home country siamo a cavallo, perché credo ci siano poche nazioni che pongano più difficoltà dell'Italia nella gestione di un'impresa.

flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier (QR), that is established in a country (Italia) other than the home country of its majority owner or owners (Qatar) in order to avoid regulations of the home country (che non permettono voli tra Europa e USA senza che siano prosecuzioni di voli provenienti dal Qatar).
Seppure non corretto dal punto di vista formale (QR è socio di minoranza di IG), secondo me questo è il concetto che si vorrebbe far passare con la nuova legge.
Anche BA quindi ricade nella definizione.

Inviato dal mio WAS-LX1A utilizzando Tapatalk

Mattia
Messaggi: 2285
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda Mattia » ven 12 lug 2019, 07:47:12

kco ha scritto:
belumosi ha scritto:
KittyHawk ha scritto:Se la definizione è ‘flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier that is established in a country other than the home country of its majority owner or owners in order to avoid regulations of the home country siamo a cavallo, perché credo ci siano poche nazioni che pongano più difficoltà dell'Italia nella gestione di un'impresa.

flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier (QR), that is established in a country (Italia) other than the home country of its majority owner or owners (Qatar) in order to avoid regulations of the home country (che non permettono voli tra Europa e USA senza che siano prosecuzioni di voli provenienti dal Qatar).
Seppure non corretto dal punto di vista formale (QR è socio di minoranza di IG), secondo me questo è il concetto che si vorrebbe far passare con la nuova legge.
Anche BA quindi ricade nella definizione.

Inviato dal mio WAS-LX1A utilizzando Tapatalk

Anche la futura Alitalia quindi

KittyHawk
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda KittyHawk » ven 12 lug 2019, 08:30:15

belumosi ha scritto:
KittyHawk ha scritto:Se la definizione è ‘flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier that is established in a country other than the home country of its majority owner or owners in order to avoid regulations of the home country siamo a cavallo, perché credo ci siano poche nazioni che pongano più difficoltà dell'Italia nella gestione di un'impresa.

flag of convenience carrier’ means a foreign air carrier (QR), that is established in a country (Italia) other than the home country of its majority owner or owners (Qatar) in order to avoid regulations of the home country (che non permettono voli tra Europa e USA senza che siano prosecuzioni di voli provenienti dal Qatar).
Seppure non corretto dal punto di vista formale (QR è socio di minoranza di IG), secondo me questo è il concetto che si vorrebbe far passare con la nuova legge.

Un articolo di legge formulato in siffatta maniera è una manna dal cielo per tutti gli studi legali del mondo, perché offre l'occasione di lauti guadagni.
Aspetti lucrosi a parte, come tu pure noti QR è socio di minoranza, quindi la definizione non si può assolutamente applicare. E alle US3 non conviene tirare troppo la corda, perché l'Unione europea ha già fatto sapere che IG è a tutti gli effetti una compagnia comunitaria, con tutto quello che ne consegue e conseguirebbe.

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belumosi
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Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda belumosi » ven 12 lug 2019, 09:21:41

I dubbi ci stanno tutti, però non mi viene in mente nessun’altra ragione per approvare una legge del genere. Per quanto riguarda i confronti con le altre compagnie, ricordo che da sempre le leggi si interpretano per gli amici e si sbattono in testa ai nemici...
Credo comunque che uno dei più grossi errori della nuova IG sia stato rendere così palese la sudditanza a QR, che ha imposto alla compagnia italiana aerei, dirigenza e perfino colori.
Qualcuno negli ultimi mesi ha sentito parlare dell'Aga Khan o di qualche suo emissario?
Perché fino a quando saranno Al Baker o Al Thani a perorare la causa di IG, quest’ultima agli occhi del mondo non potrà essere vista che come una semplice filiale italiana di QR (per quanto formalmente legale).
Intanto continua a non essere disponibile Il bilancio 2018.

milmxp
Messaggi: 1423
Iscritto il: sab 02 lug 2016, 18:51:50

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda milmxp » ven 12 lug 2019, 09:33:00

belumosi ha scritto:I dubbi ci stanno tutti, però non mi viene in mente nessun’altra ragione per approvare una legge del genere. Per quanto riguarda i confronti con le altre compagnie, ricordo che da sempre le leggi si interpretano per gli amici e si sbattono in testa ai nemici...
Credo comunque che uno dei più grossi errori della nuova IG sia stato rendere così palese la sudditanza a QR, che ha imposto alla compagnia italiana aerei, dirigenza e perfino colori.
Qualcuno negli ultimi mesi ha sentito parlare dell'Aga Khan o di qualche suo emissario?
Perché fino a quando saranno Al Baker o Al Thani a perorare la causa di IG, quest’ultima agli occhi del mondo non potrà essere vista che come una semplice filiale italiana di QR (per quanto formalmente legale).
Intanto continua a non essere disponibile Il bilancio 2018.

I bilanci devono essere approvati entro il 30 giugno, siamo al 12 luglio e penso che a breve usciranno i dati.
E poi IG non deve render conto a nessuno, salvo i suoi creditori, dato che usa soldi suoi. L'incontro con Trump credo che sia stato chiaro, stanno caricando la Summer 2020, quindi vuol dire che l'intenzione di andare avanti c'è e che negli USA si sono scambiati garanzie reciproche. Strano che martedì parlano insieme e mercoledì spunta la summer 2020 precaricata.
Al Baker tra l'altro è da un po' di tempo che non apre bocca, ultimamente ha sempre parlato Dimitrov.
Nell'ipotesi dovesse svampare ce ne si farà una ragione.
Ultima modifica di milmxp il ven 12 lug 2019, 09:42:49, modificato 4 volte in totale.

rommix
Messaggi: 941
Iscritto il: mar 08 apr 2008, 11:28:59

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda rommix » ven 12 lug 2019, 09:35:26

belumosi ha scritto:I dubbi ci stanno tutti, però non mi viene in mente nessun’altra ragione per approvare una legge del genere. Per quanto riguarda i confronti con le altre compagnie, ricordo che da sempre le leggi si interpretano per gli amici e si sbattono in testa ai nemici...
Credo comunque che uno dei più grossi errori della nuova IG sia stato rendere così palese la sudditanza a QR, che ha imposto alla compagnia italiana aerei, dirigenza e perfino colori.
Qualcuno negli ultimi mesi ha sentito parlare dell'Aga Khan o di qualche suo emissario?
Perché fino a quando saranno Al Baker o Al Thani a perorare la causa di IG, quest’ultima agli occhi del mondo non potrà essere vista che come una semplice filiale italiana di QR (per quanto formalmente legale).
Intanto continua a non essere disponibile Il bilancio 2018.


Sono daccordissimo, e penso che se ne siano accorti anche in IG...

molte iniziative dai pride ai testimonial che iniziano a collaborare con IG potrebbero derivare da un volersi provare a smarcare da questa idea di filiale 2 di Qatar...

milmxp
Messaggi: 1423
Iscritto il: sab 02 lug 2016, 18:51:50

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda milmxp » ven 12 lug 2019, 09:37:46

rommix ha scritto:
belumosi ha scritto:I dubbi ci stanno tutti, però non mi viene in mente nessun’altra ragione per approvare una legge del genere. Per quanto riguarda i confronti con le altre compagnie, ricordo che da sempre le leggi si interpretano per gli amici e si sbattono in testa ai nemici...
Credo comunque che uno dei più grossi errori della nuova IG sia stato rendere così palese la sudditanza a QR, che ha imposto alla compagnia italiana aerei, dirigenza e perfino colori.
Qualcuno negli ultimi mesi ha sentito parlare dell'Aga Khan o di qualche suo emissario?
Perché fino a quando saranno Al Baker o Al Thani a perorare la causa di IG, quest’ultima agli occhi del mondo non potrà essere vista che come una semplice filiale italiana di QR (per quanto formalmente legale).
Intanto continua a non essere disponibile Il bilancio 2018.


Sono daccordissimo, e penso che se ne siano accorti anche in IG...

molte iniziative dai pride ai testimonial che iniziano a collaborare con IG potrebbero derivare da un volersi provare a smarcare da questa idea di filiale 2 di Qatar...

Su questo sono d'accordo ed è stata una mossa geniale quella del pride.
Agli occhi del mondo fa già ridere solo l'idea di accostare il Qatar al mondo LGBT.

KittyHawk
Messaggi: 4608
Iscritto il: mer 11 giu 2008, 23:29:09
Località: Milano

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda KittyHawk » ven 12 lug 2019, 12:51:51

Non mi ricordo se è già stato indicato in precedenza, ma il sito web della coalizione U.S. Airlines for Open Skies (USAOS) mostra chiaramente la misura del confronto in atto negli Stati Uniti.

Come spesso accade con gli americani, non manca neppure il riferimento al fondamentale supporto alle truppe statunitensi delle missioni estere.

canadian#affairs
Messaggi: 1187
Iscritto il: dom 30 nov 2008, 11:25:20

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda canadian#affairs » ven 12 lug 2019, 22:01:02

Airline CEOs: Subsidized Gulf airlines are violating trade agreements, threatening US jobs
Doug Parker, Ed Bastian and Oscar Munoz

Published 5:00 AM EDT Jul 12, 2019

For decades, the U.S. aviation industry has served as an economic engine in every state, creating jobs for millions of Americans and building business opportunities across a wide range of industries. We’re proud that the three airlines we lead are an integral part of this story.

But in recent years, two foreign countries have thrown a wrench into this engine. For over a decade, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar have violated trade agreements with the United States by funneling over $50 billion in subsidies into their government-owned airlines — Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways. These state subsidies are destabilizing the global airline industry and threatening to undermine our nation’s entire system of trade enforcement. Left unchecked, they send a signal that other countries can ignore our trade deals and trample upon our workers without consequences.

Thankfully, last year President Donald Trump negotiated new agreements designed to end these trade violations, mandate financial transparency and restore fair competition. But before the ink was even dry, these countries that are meant to be our partners were looking for loopholes.

Workers pay price for unfair trade

Qatar is perhaps most blatantly disrespecting its January 2018 agreement. The country pledged that its airline would not launch any flights directly between the United States and Europe. It quickly shrugged off the commitment by investing in a failing regional Italian airline and rebranding it as Air Italy, which is now being used as a proxy for new subsidy-backed routes between the U.S. and Italy.

To be clear, U.S. airlines are not opposed to competition. We compete each day for the business of millions of travelers, whether our rivals are large, small, private or government-owned. But what’s happening with the Qatar and UAE airlines is not fair competition.

Subsidies allow these carriers to fly money-losing flights in a way no rational commercial airline could afford. It is an advantage that no airline — no matter how big — can reasonably overcome. Ultimately, it’s U.S. airline workers who pay the price.

President Trump campaigned on a platform of defending American workers from bad deals and unfair trade practices. By violating their Open Skies agreements, Qatar and the UAE are putting over 1.2 million American jobs in jeopardy. It isn’t just the hard-working pilots, flight attendants and ground crews whose livelihoods are at risk; it is everyone who depends on the economic engine that the aviation industry creates for our country. An economic analysis we submitted to the government shows that for every long-haul international route a U.S. carrier loses or forgoes due to subsidized Gulf carrier expansion, 1,500 American jobs are lost.

It also raises questions about how the United States should deal with partners that openly undermine trade agreements. In any business, you wouldn’t stand by and do nothing while the other side refuses to comply.

Foreign planes in US? Let our airlines compete: Maybe more dogs will reach their destinations

In light of actions by Qatar and the UAE over the past year, the Trump administration likely now sees that they have no intention of complying with their longstanding Open Skies agreements or last year’s deals.

Don't reward bad behavior
Aside from Qatar’s blatant actions regarding Air Italy, we’re also seeing obvious inaction on the part of both countries when it comes to financial transparency. In fact, the Gulf carriers are less transparent today than before the UAE and Qatar signed their respective agreements.

Failure to enforce these agreements sends a message to other countries that they can take advantage of the United States without consequences. That can’t be our position. If Qatar and the UAE aren’t willing to uphold their side of the deals, the United States should consider removing itself from these two Open Skies treaties altogether.

This administration knows a trade violation when it sees one. The United States must act decisively to hold Qatar and the UAE accountable. Failure to do so would reward bad behavior and signal to other countries that they too are free to exploit American workers. That is a dangerous precedent that our airline workers and our country cannot afford.

Doug Parker is the CEO of American Airlines. Ed Bastian is the CEO of Delta Air Lines. Oscar Munoz is the CEO of United Airlines.

Published 5:00 AM EDT Jul 12, 2019

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... 686119001/

easyMXP
Messaggi: 4161
Iscritto il: mer 20 ago 2008, 16:00:52

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda easyMXP » ven 12 lug 2019, 22:11:42

Giusto dopo che il Qatar ha promesso di coprire di miliardi veri i lavoratori americani, la UE ha ricordato con durezza che IG è una compagnia europea e gli USA non si sognassero di limitare l'open sky, e subito prima che DL investa in una compagnia pesantemente sussidiata da un governo straniero, questi escono con ste pippe sui milioni di lavoratori minacciati dai 4 voli di IG.
Ridicoli.

Avatar utente
malpensante
Messaggi: 12389
Iscritto il: mar 20 nov 2007, 18:05:14
Località: Milano Linate

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda malpensante » ven 12 lug 2019, 22:24:40

Attendo trepidante il momento in cui le US3, capitanate da Delta, faranno lo stesso casino contro i sussidi statali ad Alitalia.
And Malpensa is going to be our Hub

grandemilano
Messaggi: 960
Iscritto il: mar 08 mar 2011, 20:11:31

Re: CEO di American Airlines contro Air Italy

Messaggio da leggereda grandemilano » ven 12 lug 2019, 23:03:10

easyMXP ha scritto:Giusto dopo che il Qatar ha promesso di coprire di miliardi veri i lavoratori americani, la UE ha ricordato con durezza che IG è una compagnia europea e gli USA non si sognassero di limitare l'open sky, e subito prima che DL investa in una compagnia pesantemente sussidiata da un governo straniero, questi escono con ste pippe sui milioni di lavoratori minacciati dai 4 voli di IG.
Ridicoli.

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